Thread: Dolphin 5.6.5 An Alternative?

"Do I put some of our programmers on this speed issue and try to help BoonEx with the problem?"

It is just my opinion, but here's why:
The next version of Dolphin will be incompatible with all previous releases...
Coding seems to be a haphazard arrangement between programmers and one does not necessarily follow the path of another....
Your work might help Dolphin products advance at this stage.. but to what end?
Trident is supposedly the platform all Boonex products will be moving to somewhere in the future and Dolphin is going to be dropped in favor of Andrew's latest vision (or at least Dolphin will be absorbed by this new platform)....
Your sweat and money will be poured into an application for which you would receive no real credit or remuneration, and you might even be held legally liable for any "damages" which your contributed code might cause an otherwise perfectly functioning product....

My advice?

Take the GPL product and branch off of that and create something that actually works, incorporates the features most are begging for, and pattern your business after RedHat... give away the product and charge for support.

I know, I'm always offering my two cents, but it's all I've got

Originally Posted by bigal0228

Take the GPL product and branch off of that and create something that actually works, incorporates the features most are begging for, and pattern your business after RedHat... give away the product and charge for support

This is EXACTLY what we have been talking about internally. To a tee.... 100%. Amazing.

Including the "RedHat" comment, which was also mentioned and talked about in our internal meetings.

Wow - almost like you were listening in? Is my Skype account hacked? Ha Ha!

In general:

- Product Free with no license (based on 5.6.5 GPL)
- Basic Hosting Free (if people want it).
- Modules like "World Cities" which we still can not believe has not been added to Dolphin 7.x as a standard feature, and we currently sell for $300 + an install.
- Charge for advanced hosting (if needed/desired), support, and custom modifications.

You know, the biggest site we support, with 750,000 users, and 5 million user photos, and generating (not for us, but the site owner) 12k to 17k a day in NEW SALES (not counting recurring sales) is based on 5.6.5 GPL... so we know quite a bit about 5.6.5, how it works, how to modify it, and how to tweak it.

We coded that site from Day 1... starting 5 years ago. Repository is at revision 25,527 as of today.

So as far as 5.6.5 being able to "take it" - we know 100% that it can.

Smoge

Originally Posted by bigal0228

The next version of Dolphin will be incompatible with all previous releases...Coding seems to be a haphazard arrangement between programmers and one does not necessarily follow the path of another....
Your work might help Dolphin products advance at this stage.. but to what end?
Trident is supposedly the platform all Boonex products will be moving to somewhere in the future and Dolphin is going to be dropped in favor of Andrew's latest vision (or at least Dolphin will be absorbed by this new platform)....Your sweat and money will be poured into an application for which you would receive no real credit or remuneration

And this too - also our concerns. Right out of our internal meetings this last week. You are a clairvoyant. Or, just someone, who has been around a long time like us, and can really see things for the way they are.

We too are concerned about the focus and direction of Version 7.

We think the CC-BY license (requiring to have BoonEx links at the bottom of the page unless you pay a license fee) in version 6 and 7 sucks. Ok, some small link, ok... but not what they have now taking up real estate.

And also, to be honest with you... Dolphin 7.x is just a royal pain in the ass to program in... and beyond the scope of many beginner to intermediate PHP programmers for anything but the most basic modifications.

We feel that the complexity of the code (all the OOP) takes away a really valuable thing from everybody - easily readable code that people can try to do their own things in!

In our minds, this is what makes things fun for a lot of people... the ability to at least have a chance to do their own basic modifications! And fun for us, as we don't have to digest a bunch of OOP to diagnose a problem or create a new modification.

This all seems to be totally lost in version 7.

Smoge

Originally Posted by cbassthefish

Good business model with regard to this sort of thing. You have my attention.

Well.. we tried this several years ago with "GPLDATE" which was also based on 5.6.5 .... but the community support was not behind it.

One of my tasks the next couple of days is to track down that old GPLDATE code which is hidden in a nook and cranny on a server someplace.

People were lured by the features of Dolphin 6... and perhaps we did not give GPLDATE enough time and attention.

But things MAYBE worth a second try now in light of the current situation.

Smoge

But yes, I've been working with Dolphin since the good ol 5.x days and have spent untold thousands of hours under the hood with them all. About the time I get good at figuring out all the issues with one version, the next comes out, is incompatible with previous versions, none of my mods will work with the new code, entire directories of code have changed or gone missing, and the new code is full of bugs, so you are forced to basically start over from scratch. THis applies to everything from basic code to the templates, etc. Upgrade patches work haphazardly or not at all, and nothing is optimized in the code. This even applies to internal version updates as well.

My biggest issues have been with the database design. Inefficient, bloated and obtuse for even those with a pretty good understanding of databases. This is where your site really takes a hit.

Modules. When 7 came along with the modules, I was going to cheer until I saw exactly HOW the modules worked. Took a look at some of the sql inserts and they were modifying existing tables. While you could install or remove them from the back end, this was going to create some serious issues down the road in my opinion.

In my opinion, the ONLY way to optimize Dolphin is basically to clean it out to a bare-bones piece of software, clean up that code as best you can, and then work back up from there. Since I am unable to do that myself, it just made more sense for me to move on to something better.

My ideas for the 5.6 are just from having seen how a community of involved folks CAN make a real difference in how a piece of software gets designed and supported. Joomla should be the roadmap every open-source project uses. They took a pretty good piece of software (Mambo) and took it to the next level. Interestingly enough, Joomla came about almost for the same reasons that we are talking about this right now. Folks got tired of the way things were being done (or not done) and decided to take things in a new direction which swiftly overtook and surpassed the original software. I think that knowing Rob, his dedication to excellence in all he does, and with a community here already established, that by moving forward in a new direction with some old software, there is a huge potential opportunity to create something that will be welcomed not only by those looking for a solution that meets their needs, but by the large numbers of currently dissatisfied users of the original product. Giving it away for free will ENSURE that it is quickly accepted and adopted by large numbers of people, and those same people will help contribute to it's success and development. If just a small portion of those people decide to pay for hosting or some support, you can bet it will add up to some real money very quickly........

Originally Posted by bigal0228

My biggest issues have been with the database design. Inefficient, bloated and obtuse for even those with a pretty good understanding of databases. This is where your site really takes a hit.

What I am trying to say is... WE KNOW EXACTLY what is needed for 5.6.5's database to handle a million + real users.... so if we did do "GPLDATE2", we would code this in from the start - what we have learned.

Just about everything about 5.6.5 is part of our active thinking - meaning - we know and understand every part of the code and database after working on it EVERY DAY for 5 years.

We don't have to guess about this at all... it is ALL known to us.

I think that we know Dolphin 5.6.5 code better than anyone else on the planet - maybe even more than BoonEx's existing staff (as I assume they are perhaps newer, and have only been around since 6 and 7).

This is additionally one of the main reasons why 5.6.5 development is so attractive to us.

Smoge

I had to make a move to my own server a while back due to the suckwad economy and started seriously looking around for software I could use on a very low bandwidth connection. Joomla fit that bill, but I also revisited a number of flash chat programs. I had been using Flashcoms chat for a long time, and really like it, but it is a bandwidth hawg. I tested 123Flashchat as well, and really like it too, but price is a huge consideration, and after having laid out over $3000 over the course of 4 years, wasn't prepared to spend another $1500 or so on a new chat. I went back and took another look at tufat's flashchat and decided to give it a new try. At $5 (if you want the source code, free otherwise) it's hard to beat the price. I also developed a relationship there with a great Flash programmer, fb3 and have been working with him on some nice customizations. His price? $30.... As tufat's chat works on red5, FMS OR Woowza, it might be something worth considering as an alternative to anything RAY.... I've actually gotten pretty good at flash myself as well as the red5 and FMS. I currently use the FMS since I spent a bundle on it 3 years ago, but with red5 getting closer to an actual finished product, might take a look at that once again. Free is ALWAYS better in my opinion...

I would agree with bigal here, and my answer would be NO! too, you would be wasting valuable time helping with the current Dolphin project.. There does seem to be a very distinct pattern with the dolphin software, and everytime they patch or upgrade, nothing is compatible. So if you start messing with this present incarnation when they eventually do upgrade, causing yet more problems for themselves and us the users, all the work you do will be lost.

Im getting the feeling you know that they dont actually know what they are doing now, and this is somewhat of a runaway project so to branch out on your own would be a wise move for those with the skill, i for one would certainly follow that move than put anymore eggs into the boonex basket as it stands now